Interview with Antoine Maartens

In this document, we convey the main conclusions of the interview with Antoine Maartens, who is working on energy neutral (Wadden) islands for Urgenda. The interview took place at the 3ME faculty on December 3th right after his lecture about the agenda and vision of Urgenda. This summary is written from the ‘I’ perspective to allow easy reading, but it is no literal transcription of the dialogue. Please note that due to privacy reasons any other individuals' names which were mentioned during our interview have been left out of this summary.

Interview answers

From reading different reports and websites we have the notion that Texelaars are rather innovative people, also because they got used to dealing with their own problems from history on. However during the lecture you mentioned them also being quite conservative, why?

From the history point of view I agree, the people have done a lot by themselves. However, a lot of the current innovation has been done and is being done by people from the mainland. The islanders are able to push through existing/started developments, but do not start innovation. For example; TESO, is started by a wealthy doctor who originally did not live on the Island.

Are there other than financial barriers that Texelaars are being confronted with that cause them to stop pursuing their innovative ideas?

Can (technology), will (support) and may (regulations) are the ‘magic’ three words which all possible innovation is dependent on. Of those, the regulations (may) are the most important barrier.

Furthermore, I think you should also take into account to what extent a project is achievable. TexelEnergy for instance did almost go bankrupt because they had more tasks to do than they were able to; they already had a full time job selling and registering power.

When different parties are involved in one project, do those parties usually also have conflicting interests?

No, it is more just a very long bureaucratic process. Their ambitions and visions are generally in line with each other, it is just small things that can take up a lo Some things are not necessarily difficult or prohibited, but sometimes you have to deal with so much different actors that it can take a lot of time of time because you have to deal with so many different, mostly external, actors.

What do the Texelaars think of the plans of the municipality to become energy neutral? Where they involved in an early stage of the creation progress? If not, are they aware of the plans and do they support them?

I think those ambitions are made by the government and, although revised and re-decided on in 2011, they are not really seen as valuable. That might be the case because, although the community was represented by the town council, they feel not really involved in the process.  Therefore the plans are not really supported by Texelaars. The inhabitants were informed of the municipality’s ambitions because they were mentioned at every occasion. This only counts for Texel, because for example on Ameland or Vlieland the story is totally different. On Ameland, the municipality has a more leading function in the transition towards sustainability, with a special role for the energy cooperation of Ameland (AEC).

What makes Ameland and Vlieland different from Texel?

On the other islands the legislation is slightly different, that might help. Furthermore, you see that the inhabitants on the other islands are more involved and even have a share in the sustainable innovation processes that take place, those are really starting to succeed. On Texel, I think some innovation has been subsidised for too long. In my opinion, you should only subsidise sustainable projects that otherwise would not be able to get started, for solar panels, something that is not new anymore, this is really no longer needed.

How could the inhabitants of Texel become more engaged in innovation on the island?

On Vlieland there is the “2020 group”, on Terschelling we have “gastvrij Terschelling”, those consist of small groups of people, often women, in which things are being organized in an informal way. I see that these people really like and feel comfortable in these small and informal coffee groups. I go to those groups to talk to them about sustainable innovations. What happens is that those people often start talking to each other and might come up with new ideas.

On Texel currently a lot of initiatives are being done, however, mostly individually. Although the municipality would want them to collaborate more, for me personally it is not a problem, as long as something is happening.

How could we stimulate the inhabitants to collaborate more with each other?

Maybe you could create or find an informal space where people can meet on Texel, because there are definitely people willing to innovate and collaborate with others too. These low threshold coffee groups could work, because next to being useful, they are also nice to join. It might be important to involve women, since they will add support, make it more informal and maybe a bit less technical. Both are needed, innovation and sociable informality. These groups should probably be village based, since each village has its own identity and social cohesion.

Are specific people or resources needed for this?

Yes, I think that a couple of ‘leader figures’ that work above village level are needed at some point during the process. They should be able to communicate with the municipality and with the people from other villages. In my opinion there are already some people on the island who could fulfill such a role. A good reference for a principle that could also work on Texel might be that of transition towns; based on the strength of the local community. Their initiatives have an ambitious goal: to prepare your own city, neighbourhood, village or region for the combination of using less fossil fuels and the climate crisis.

Keep in mind that regulations are important to take into account in an early stage to manage expectations. To find solutions for those regulations this person or group should be dedicated, willing to become more politically involved, invest a lot of time, energy and money. Also keep in mind that it is natural and not bad that some of the people who were initially involved in this will leave at one point.

Do you know people living on the island who could fulfil this role? And do the Texelaars also know where or how to find them?

Yes I know some people on the island who could fulfill this role and people of the island know where to find them.

Assume that someone from Texel has a good, innovative idea and wants to pursue this. Is he or she able to find or collect the right people and resources to do this?

That will depend mostly on the scale the want to work on. They are capable of doing small projects, however, bigger ones are restrained by regulations and the need for massive resources. Furthermore, it is of course true that people first want to see before they gain trust in you and/or the project. So you should do a (pilot) project or showcase building for a relatively long time before people want to engage, buy or use it. For example the showcase building with all sorts of innovations being showed, bring people there, make the innovations tangible and use the human scale, then people will see the benefits and will engage easier.

Our last, and totally different question: Do you know if “Stichting Duurzaam Texel” still exist? If they do not exist anymore, why not?

No, it has been officially ended last December. It was created by a couple of big actors: TESO, the tourist information and de Krim. It was later transformed to Team Texel2020, however, this will be cancelled as well. The association has become a network organization, the people who were in it, still chat with each other.

Lessons learned

The main lesson we learned from Antoine is how hard it is for non-Texelaars to make a change on the island. Not only when you want to come up with new innovation, but also when you want to help to improve existing projects. Texel does have some people who can function as intermediaries and he thinks the inhabitants know how or where to find them. He names the strength of the local community as an opportunity for our design. Furthermore, legislation is being mentioned as the biggest barrier for innovation.